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 Post subject: Re: 24-fret necks and others
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:54 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Staffordshire, England
If I can just throw my two-pence worth into the argument:-)

I notice some questioning the need for a 24 fret neck: I've written and recorded a few songs recently where I went that high up the fretboard and I've got to say I was very glad to be able to do it. Sure, it wasn't essential and I could have written something else, but I was really pleased that i was able to do it on my Ric. I think one of the many great features of the 330 is the ability to go that far up the fretboard with relative ease - its a different proposition on my Les Paul!


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 Post subject: Re: 24-fret necks and others
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:00 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Germany
Thank you all very much for your contributions!

After all, what I would like to have, is a 360/12C63 with a wider neck and a fully adjustable bridge ;)
Vintage looks and an improved playability, that's all!

I have recently seen a picture of Roger McGuinn's 370/12 bridge. Just to look at the postion of the two saddles for the lower e-string pair made any discussion about the importance of a adjustable 12-string bridge obsolete.

The December volume of Gitarre & Bass (the main German guitar magazine) contained a compairing report about 12 different 12-string guitars, the only two complaints made, were narrow width at nut and intonation on those being equipped with 6-saddle bridges.

Wish you all a happy holiday season!

Klaus


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 Post subject: Re: 24-fret necks and others
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 4038
Location: Santa Ana, CA
Quote:
I have recently seen a picture of Roger McGuinn's 370/12 bridge. Just to look at the position of the two saddles for the lower e-string pair made any discussion about the importance of a adjustable 12-string bridge obsolete.
Yeah, but he uses strings that are basically un-intonatable, to make up a new word, and also doesn't have the sliding bridge mount plate that all modern guitars are equipped with.
Quote:
The December volume of Gitarre & Bass
Of well, if you read it there, then it must be true for everyone. Perhaps they should inform our customers who have given us this huge multi-year backorder list.


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 Post subject: Re: 24-fret necks and others
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Teignmouth, UK
I know that it's different strokes for different folks, but I have two 12's & have owned many more in the past. I have to say, that using Ric strings, I have never had any tuning issues what so ever & I am pretty hot on that type of thing. I had a CW-12 that had a 12 saddle bridge on it, but didn't notice any difference.

As for the neck width, you get used to it pretty quickly. The beauty of a Ric 12 string IMO, is that it makes you play properly...you can't get away with lazy fingering. I have found that this has actually helped the accuracy of my playing, so it's a pretty good side effect!


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 Post subject: Re: 24-fret necks and others
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 279
Location: Lexington, KY
I think what V-P and the German magazine were getting at is that Rics are darn-near-perfect... only 2 issues. As for the bridge, the 12-saddle versions are available from several places, so if you feel you need one, get it. As for the wider neck, I would prefer one too, but I've never had a problem playing my 360/12.

When you're considering 12-strings it kinda comes down to 3 categories: Rics, low-quality imports and insanely expensive vintage or modern 12s that aren't as good as Rics.


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 Post subject: Re: 24-fret necks and others
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:09 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:00 pm
Posts: 232
Location: N.J.
Quote:
Yeah, but he uses strings that are basically un-intonatable, to make up a new word ...


What would be the benefit of this? Adjusting intonation is hard enough, why would someone use strings like this?

Quote:
When you're considering 12-strings it kinda comes down to 3 categories: Rics, low-quality imports and insanely expensive vintage or modern 12s that aren't as good as Rics.


I've also found this to be true in terms of electrics. I'd love to hear a Ric 12 Acoustic, but I can't find any dealer that has even one RIC acoustic




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 Post subject: Re: 24-fret necks and others
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:57 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 1752
Location: Erkelenz, Europe
Quote:
The December volume of Gitarre & Bass (the main German guitar magazine) (...)

Hi, Klaus, it´s great to welcome a fellow countryman here. But I do not think that you can call "Gitarre & Bass" the "main German guitar magazine." There also is "guitar" - a magazine with much more useful content in my opinion.

@ vintage-player: Concerning your original post I would like to remark that there are not only 12 string players around here. It might well be that there is little use for 24 frets on a twelve string guitar. I do not know. But on a six string guitar 24 frets are a big improvement compared to 21 frets sometimes. You see, if I record a lead guitar line or an improvised solo I seldomly use my 21 fret 620. Most of the time I use my 24 fret 650 (which also has the wider neck).

What is more, to my eyes the 24 fret guitars do not look bad at all.

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"Writing about music is like dancing about architecture." (Elvis Costello)


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 Post subject: Re: 24-fret necks and others
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:59 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:00 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Germany
John Hall seems to be a bit offended by my statements ;)

Never mind, my contributions reflect my own point of view!

But there's still unanswered questions left...!

What does split saddle mean? Is it kind of a pre-set saddle to improve intonation, like on the contemporary acoustics?

I would love to call a 360/12C63 my own, if I just could get hold of one :(
I hope you don't discontinue the serial before I grabbed one.

There's one more thing I would like to mention: this is a really lively forum.

Keep well and stay tuned!

Regards
Klaus


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 Post subject: Re: 24-fret necks and others
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:00 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Germany
Just found out, that my status is "groupie".... never thought, that I will become a male groupie *lol



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 Post subject: Re: 24-fret necks and others
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:37 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 279
Location: Lexington, KY
The 24 vs 21/22 fret debate has been going on for quite a while and it shows no signs of being solved. I sell another brand that makes several of their models in 22 both and 24 fret versions... going by sales figures, the guitar community is split right down the middle on this subject.

I've had guitars from 12 all the way up to 36 useable frets... personally, I've found that anything more than 17 is a waste for me. I'd rather have the extra body mass and structural integrity of a shorter neck.


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