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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:26 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:07 am
Posts: 3829
Quote:
Quote:
...I want to swap the high gains on my Ric 360-12 for new toasters I just got from Ric. Several have said while I'm doing it I ought to add in a .0047 capacitor and a push pull pot.


I'm _really_ new at this. And so have several even more basic questions. What's a .0047 capacitor? What does it do?
What sort of measurement is .0047?
What will the push pull pot controll?
What will be accomplished with these modifications?

JimK



OK, good questions.

1) In order to accentuate the vintage jangle, RIC has historically put a .0047 microfarad capacitor in line to the "hot" lead of the bridge pickup. This capacitor is in addition to the regular tone capacitors. This in line capacitor serves two functions: a) it is a "high-pass" filter, meaning it cuts the bass out of the tone, and b) at the hinge frequency of the capacitor and above, it shifts the phase of the signal 90 degrees. Add 12 strings, properly carved maple body, and most importantly the superlative workmanship, and you have classic jangle.

2) The way I have the push-pull wired does two things simultaneously on a 3-pickup guitar. a) with the push-pull down, it has the in line cap in the circuit to the bridge pickup and sends only the neck pickup to the "up" position of the selector switch, all to get classic vintage 2-pickup jangle. With the push-pull up, it bypasses the in line capacitor to the bridge pickup, giving it a "straight" tone, and sends only the middle pickup to the "up" position of the selector switch. This gives a second completely different palette of tones not obtainable out of the stock 3-pickup wiring.

3) I put the push-pull on the 5th knob for two reasons: a) the 5th knob being smaller, doesn't look out of place from a distance when you pull it, so you retain vintage appearance; and b) all of the stock controls, including the 5th knob, do what they do stock, so nobody has to re-learn what any knob does except the push-pull. As an advantage, since the inline capacitor does drop the overall output slightly of the bridge pickup, you can immediately re-balance the volume relationship between the bridge pickup and the other pickups as the 5th knob was originally intended to do, as you change back and forth.

CAVEAT: like with all modifications, this may void the factory warranty. But the two guitars I did it on are already over 25 years old anyway, so I wasn't too worried. If you aren't comfortable with a soldering iron, have someone else who is do it for you. One slip with a soldering iron can ruin electronics, burn a place in the guitar's finish, or cause other undesirable results. Finally, because of the relative pickup placements, this mod will probably work better with 21 fret guitars as opposed to 24 fret guitars, because the placement of the neck pickup on a 21 fret guitar is closer to the open string node, if not on it. This placement on a 21 fret guitar produces a mellower tone for the neck pickup than the 24 fret guitars, which puts the neck pickup farther downstream towards the bridge so as to sound marginally brighter. So the tone contrast of neck vs middle on a 24 fret guitar won't be as great as on a 21 fret guitar. But it will still sound good.

From the Boutique here on the RIC website --

The push-pull pot:
http://www.rickenbacker.com/cart.asp?vi ... lectronics

and the .0047 capacitor:
http://www.rickenbacker.com/cart.asp?vi ... lectronics

Here is an article that explains the phase shift of the signal induced by the capacitor, since the signal generated by a vibrating string over a guitar pickup is in essence an AC signal, and therefore why the inline cap is an indispensible component of vintage jangle: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_4/2.html

Please give me a few days to squeeze this project into my schedule. I appreciate all the interest. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:16 pm
Posts: 702
Location: Munich , Germany
iiipopes, here comes a really big THANK YOU SIR ! from the other side of the pond for your efforts on this subject ! It's time now that your name should be changed back from shark to GUITAR GOD again ! Please count me in as well for both - two and three pups..my email adress: pittwohn@arcor.de ;


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:48 am
Posts: 34
Location: New York
I forgot to post my Email so I'll post it here.
moonraker@si.rr.com.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:26 am
Posts: 387
Location: Lawrence, Kansas
Thanks, iiipopes. That answered all my questions.

JimK


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:55 am
Posts: 250
Location: Ontario, Canada
Would this mod work well on a 320 equipped with 12 kOhm toasters? Thanks!!


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:25 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:07 am
Posts: 3829
Quote:
Would this mod work well on a 320 equipped with 12 kOhm toasters? Thanks!!


The short answer is "yes." You may already have the .0047 in line to the bridge pickup. The tone will be slightly different, with more mids and a touch less top end because of the extra windings on the pickups, but it should work, as it should work on all 300 series 5 knob guitars.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:04 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:07 am
Posts: 3829
OK, since you all want "picture" drawings instead of just raw technical schematics, I found some time this weekend to get my 320 out, remove the control plate screws, turn the control plate over, and draw it out. This week I'll make some time to proofread my drawing, scan it to pdf, and send it out for initial review.

Then I'll need to figure out how to draw the variants for a 370 with Ric-O-Sound and for two pickup guitars, mono 330 and Ric-O-Sound 360, which will only have the in line cap section to the bridge pickup working, as there is no third pickup to switch in/out of the mix.

If anybody wants it for 4001/4003, putting the push-pull on the treble pickup tone control, let me know and I'll get to it when I can.

I'm not a draftsman or a visual artist. Since the number of wires in the circuit are multiplied, some of them get really close together and are hard to draw. If it turns out to be hard to read or decipher, let me know and I'll try again.


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:02 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:47 am
Posts: 17
iiipopes:

However you want to do it is fine by me. The simpler the better. Hope this isn't too big a task to ask of you. Take your time - I'll practice up on my soldering. Thanks!

Scott
hamfam721@earthlink.net


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:01 am
Posts: 92
Location: Boston
OOOH ! OOOH ! me too please.
Lee12strings@yahoo.com

Thank you for the explanations ,even if I chicken out I already understand the whole "0047 cap" much better than before .


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 Post subject: Re: iiipopes vintage tone mod
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:34 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Argentina
Quote:
Thanks. It's an honor to have a thread named for my mod. I didn't make a sketch of it. After tinkering on guitars for (mumble) decades, I just kind of did it. If you have an email, I'll draw it out, convert it to pdf, and email it to you, and anybody/everybody else who wants it, in both 2-pickup and 3-pickup versions.


I would love a copy of that too iiipopes!!! Thanks a lot man!! I have a 360/6 FG.

My email is teejay_alazar@hotmail.com


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